If the foundation is dry laid, repair using dry laid methods/if the foundation is cement based, repair with cementious materials. If sowell, thats a whole nother question entirely. I have been struggling to find information on Breeze vs Polymeric Sand to put in the 1 grout lines. But the mortar beneath the stones will likely crack, making wobbly stones sitting on cracked hard cement. Despite that, regular stone dust usually works just fine in between flagstones, without any binder, polymeric or otherwise. Polymeric sand, or poly-sand seemed great at first. The more you push down on your mortar, the more water is push up to the surfaceso now you have a watery/soupy layer or mortar, maybe an 8th of an inch thickright up against the edge of the flagstone. Hi, love the blog, just stumbled into it and you have a great skill at explaining things. Most anything youd want to plant in between flagstones will grow in a 50/50 soil/stone dust mix. So..what good shall it do me, if this unfortunately rigid and stable joint is natural, not synthetic? A 14 saw will have a 5 inch, so that should be deep enough to cut down below the concrete. Organic materials will not compact enough to support vehicle traffic. It can be used in a pinch if your setting bed is very thin - like 1/4 to 1/2" inch and preferably with a tad bit of a binder sifted in to keep the particles from shifting. Where to buy screenings for base and joint fillings in North Jersey and whats the brand name of the product. Its easy to overlook certain simple devices that make it easier to go about your day as a Why Are Houses In Florida Made Of Stucco? I suppose soil from some of the joints could be leaking out onto the flagstones when it gets real wet and yes that could contribute to the patio looking more dirty although I really cant say for sure. Now in my irregular natural shaped flagstone patio work I will usually leave gaps averaging about three quarters of an inch wide. Each stone has been set and packed by hand (earth first packed by hammer, then stones packed with wood and hammer, sometimes jumping). DIY flagstone advice from a guy at Lowessounds dangerous. Must be a west coast thing. Jobsite Saw PRO has a wider table, a new dust-control port, and a more versatile fence, along with the same reliable safety mechanism included in all SawStop tablesaws. As far as installing it over pea gravel it shouldnt be a problem as long as u have the required depth of polymeric (again check bag/box) 2. -moss. What I was wondering was if you could spray a water proofing like what is used on cement to settle the dust and smaller stones down and and keep them in place. It works well. Great article any concerns with using decomposed granite within a flagstone patio around a pool deck? Finally, polymeric sand is an acrylic product. We were also going to lay a screen to prevent weeds from growing through (I think below the sand, is this right?) Low void content, contains fines, is used as road foundations. Need your patio be perfect? Wide flagstone joints are okay.if you plan on planting say irish moss or clover or something. When laying the flagstone, I use a four foot level.2.5 inches over ten feet is equal to 1 inch over 4 feet. Wow, thats frustrating. It was getting ridiculous. I am totally on board with between the cracks, but should I insist on the bed as well? I am planning to level the ground and place landscaping cloth below crushing and lay stone tiles. I have a flagstone walkway with the stone separated by 3-4 inches (anything closer would be considered an impervious surface and restricted by zoning due to coverage restrictions so nothing to be done about that). I wish everyone would do that. What would you do? I researched the heck out of polymeric sand, and tested out three different kinds. Nothing I've found that binds pea gravel.The flagstone sounds lovely but my area is more a "patio" area--not a path. The stones tend to get lodged on your shoes and are dragged into the house. One last question on screenings is this something Home Depot carries? 3. Any suggestions to avoid this? 2.5 inches over a ten foot span will be enough, provided there are no major dips. Get complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine. Not sure DG would drain properly with the cement base. Its 3/8 in size, and says with finesthats what you need. If it were me, Id repair the existing patio with mortarand then probably do the additional 10 dry laid. We visited a tourist attraction that had done this. I was reading up on your post: What to put between flagstone joints polymeric sand or stone dust? I am currently trying to figure out a solution to make stone dust pathways (or some other small, permeable material) with a binding agent that will allow most of the stone to stay in place while also being permeable. If stone chips are getting all over the surface of your flagstone, then the joints are probably over filled. You excavate the desired area for your walkway or driveway to about one inch and fill it to the top with pea gravel. Theres also some mention of stabilized decomposed granite. Private commission. Id prefer to avoid power tools and stick with as much a natural look as possible. The gaps range from 1/4 1 between stones. does polymeric come in colors? say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." Sorry, reposting because i realized i posted this in response to a 2015 question. I had Arizona Flagstone Rose laid as a patio with 1/2 spacing. Thanks for any advice on this. I have a circle design using left-over holland pavers; so there are cracks. I never recommend sealing flagstone. Might be able to spread it around and then water it with a sprinkler to activate its stickiness. Sure. It absolutely does seem counter-intuitive to introduce plastic to a landscape; thanks for articulating this so well. This is a big project that you are describing.. Id recommend that you spend some time reading my other DIY flagstone articles. Just curious OP how did adding the sand work out? Best thing you can do to extend the life of your patio mortar joints, living in Colorado or any place with harsh wintersis to stay on top of the snow. Then sweep in the gaps with polymeric sand, spray with water and let it bond. Ive never seen any ratio of cement to stone dust/sand that works. It compacts well up to a 5 or 6 inch thickness , anything more than that and it has enough mass for a downward load to sift the particles . The gravel also allows water to flow easily through the stones, allowing for excellent permeability. Are the stones too small, I mean, maybe hes thinking to glue the stones down with the cement? Its looks like a flat matte color where there was poly sand and where no poly sand you see a beautiful high gloss high color finish.this is the best analogy I can think of. They laid it out very beautifully and was pleased with their work. Larger than half an inch= more likely to crack. Therefore, be aware of the possibility of water running off to the edges and plan accordingly. Weed and ant proof. What if I use the yogurt method etc? Comment *document.getElementById("comment").setAttribute( "id", "ab7c4abf609fa1ed15dbe4a1e48f5b44" );document.getElementById("b69840f237").setAttribute( "id", "comment" ); Devine Escapes is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. Sounds like a lot of work and I have no place to dump the pea gravel. Re-lay on stone dust/pathway fines/DG.they sell it in your area, but since I dont know your area I can not tell you the local name. This article is awesome and thank you very much for your expertise! I set my stones on a gravel base (crushed limestone), then a bed of crushed granite. Here is a link that might be useful: Klingstone Paths. Should I seal the granite? You also have to be very careful that the joint is filled all the way, and also make sure that there is no material left on top of the paving units, before you hose down. Thank you. I am in South Texas and am planning a new backyard pool installation. This second method doesnt clean up quite as easily as the powdery-dry method. Come to think of it, one of the private residences in Colonial Williamsburg has a stabilized pea gravel front walk. Personally, my preference is to merely lay larger stone along the edge of the patiohave all of your edge flagstones, large. We thought of ripping the whole thing out and putting stamped concrete because we hate the gaps so much (weeds, ants, etc). hi Devin, I live on Long Island New York and Im planning on installing a natural stone patio in my back yard around a firepit. Leave the hammer drill in the shed. Or how to deal with it? I have a large backyard, with 150+' x 5' wide pea gravel walkways.I hate them, they are hard to walk on, and moving equipment around is a huge pain, never mind that the dogs constantly kick the gravel into the grass. One of the benefits of a gravel driveway is that it is relatively inexpensive to install, typically around $1-$3 per square foot. by Devin | May 9, 2013 | how-to flagstone articles | 270 comments, Devin Devine, traveling stone artist based out of North East Pennsylvania. Do you need hardscape help? Does this sound like an acceptable solution? Dig, then tamp, then lay roadbase gravel (3/4 minus). Quikrete Gray Sand/Topping Mix 60 lb. Its just too big. He hosed and tamped the joints a couple of times, and Ive hosed them a couple more times since. I have mostly smaller spaces between the stones but there are some areas up to 3 wide. It's been over 5 years, and still doing good, although I've had to add a few bags of mulch here and there. A customer installed 46 tons (4000 sf) of to decorative type stone, fairly rounded with minimal fines on their driveway. I have good sandy loam soil. And I also offer DIY phone consultations, in case my articles are not enough to help you with your flagstone questions. Also can I expect your comment via email or simply on this site? Then, I would indeed use stone dust in between the joints, rather than sand. Joints are aging well. Kern in his book, "The Owner Built Home" talks about no-fines concrete. To solve this issue, apply WD-40 after wiping off the bottom of the tamper. So idk what to tell you..then again, over the years Ive seen a few stone patios with larger gaps, filled with stone dust, and i built a stone walkway once, with large gaps filled with gravel. Thanks! I really liked the overall performance of Techniseal HP2 Polymetric sand; so I went with this as the final selection. However, if you are telling me that you have 6 of compacted road base type gravel in place, and your flagstones are on top of that, with some sand as the leveling agent..then idk, but as a professional who cant afford to have my reputation messed withId take those flagstones back up and lay in screenings. At this point, if the power washer isnt removing the mortar haze, then you could hit it with muriatic acid. Ive heard and read about some concerns about the limestone breaking down the flag over time, as well as concerns for efflorescence. Related Content: How Much Does Pea Gravel Cost? All that space that was filled with water is now air, so its a weak concrete. Hope that helps and I wish you good luck! Main problem I see so far is that those are pretty thin flagstones for dry laid. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. I had planned to use decomposed granite for bedding and also in the joints. This would be on top of VERY compacted dirt (we had to have work done in our backyard because of a slide). So my answer involves work. Or let it happen on its own. The stone settles, the joint cracks. Thank you for the great tip! Maybe lay 2 inches and tamp that, lay the top layer and leave that loose. My new mason installed flagstone using polymeric sand. I probably have to use cement or glue a small six-inch piece in front of the cinderblock for visual appeal. Thanks for your reply. This project will be my first. Get a product called gravel lok or a pebble binder product use them a lot they work great. . Further, the stone dust I have seen is just the flour part of the DG that you describe using, without any of the 1/8 particles. The reason for a well compacted foundation of road base or something similar is thisroad base can be compacted and yet remains well draining. If the patio is dry laid, on a sand/gravel or stone dust foundation..then theres should not be anything portland cement based in the joints. Excellent advice! The one inch gap for pattern-cut or rectilinear flagstone.thats what I used to always do with a wet laid job. Bulldozer or dynamite will be most expedient, but you can probably do the deed with a pick axe/pick maddock, and a wheelbarrow and shovel. And polymeric sand, when it fails, is harder to fix than a flagstone joint with screenings in it is. Many thanks! Is there a solution I can spray on and use myself? Having said all that, I still prefer to fit pattern flagstone more tightly, quarter inch to eighth an inchon a recent 400 square foot patio that we built we had eighth inch gaps.. You want to go maybe 1 deep and maybe 1/2 wide. I go about it with love, gratitude, and hammers, chisels, powertools and with all that I have. In reality, nothing is impossible. Ive addressed this issue here in another post. I used the granite sand as my leveling layer, too. I have travertine pavers going down on a dry set base. Remove all the polymeric sand from in between the flagstonesget it all out of there. Pea gravel is commonly used for walkways, driveways, and as filler between stone pavers around the home. I love the look of pea gravel, but it sure doesn't handle traffic well. Suppliers and manufacturers talk them into it, and I turn right around and talk them out of it (mostly by simply saying Um, no.). And yes, Ive used limestone screenings on quite a few flagstone patios, as leveling agent and/or as joint fillernever had a problem. But I will make sure to get the screenings that include the eighth inch particles as well. 2" joints may be too big for polymeric (read the bag/box). You will likely need to repeat applying a binder every 6 to 8 years. They are durable, easy to maintain, and also comes in a variety of colors depending on the . We just put in a flagstone patio using decomposed granite in between the stones. It locks gravel together and stays permeable. Void formsstone sinkssolid joint sits above voidjoint cracks. Calcium chloride or other salt substitute should be fine, but salt will deteriorate mortar. Keep the joint material just shy of the tops of your stones, an eighth inch or quarter inch lowdo this, and your problem will be solved. Wanted to check with you the cheapest way to do it under 2K if possible? I live in Seattle in case that is important. Also, its toxic stuff were talking. The red, being more rare, is sometimes available in bagged form, in garden centers, but not in bulk at the mason supply places or quarries (where I usually get my screenings, because as a contractor, Im usually buying at least a yard.). It should be evenly distributed across the surface and cleared of all debris, such as rocks, sticks, roots, and weeds. Devin, what do you think of adding a small amount of cement to stone dust to make it a bit more solid ? You can choose from various materials like plastic edging or metal borders. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Hi helpful article- thank you. Can I buy just the acrylic binder that I can use to make a polysand to pack areas most prone to erosion, like the fronts of the stair sections or areas that get hit most with rain wash? Stone dust/decomposed granite would work well in the dry months, but in North Californias rainy season..Im just concerned that the trenches have concrete at the bottom, so the stone dust would have no way to dry out, for months at a time. As easy to install as regular sand, almost. Using pavers, like TRUEGRID pavers, to stabilize your pea gravel walkway is another option. Just sweep the decomposed granite into the cracks between the stones, then turn on the shower to set the DG/stone dust into place. Your work looks great! I appreciate the advice. Void forms beneath flagstone.joint settles in and fills that voidthen you top off joint. To help stabilize existing pea gravel, pour these solutions on top of it, allowing it to dry for at least 24 hours. great article wish I would have read it before installing my pavers. Expect to be topping off the stone dust trenches a couple times a year, first year or 2. 2 or 3? It leaves a nasty haze all over the place, and is overall a wasteful, expensive mess and a disappointment. In any event, it didnt get quite cleaned up enough/soon enough. *its a plant fiber. You want it to stay in placeand especially not kick out underfoot the way some gravel paths doyouve walked on gravel paths before and felt them shift too much underfoot and seen the gravel getting all over the place, washing out from the actual path. Very glad I could help One stone at a time, no plastic needed. Wow if this stuff does work, I can start to use it on my jobs. In bucks county you can get red screeningsblooming glen quarry, outside of Quakertown. I am building and outdoor shower and plan to use natural local stone, which can be fairly thick and irregular on the opposite side of a nice flat sided stone, perfect for a shower floor. With the powdery dry mix you really need to push down hard with the trowel (its so dry a mix that you will not cause a problem by pushing down, firmly, theres pretty much no water to push to the surface)so its easier to goof up that method. I have a slope in my backyard for about 15 to 20 degrees. Nor would I use any sort of caulk. I first started seeing this stuff about fifteen years ago. What is pea gravel. Its liquid plastic, alright. Take it dry and rake it in with the pea gravel , you dont want too much cement sitting on top . Everyday of my life, theres someone asking me what to do about their 8 inch wide flagstone joints. Hi Devin. Would you do a combination something? Thank you. I prefer to keep them tighter, but 2 is doable. Permeable pavers also provide stability while maintaining permeability. Looks like the flagstone was set in a concrete base. It is not a plastic based material, it is from psyllium husks. In a northern climate, cement misused in a dry laid application will almost certainly fail. Before the coat is dry, apply sand over the binding solution. Looks like it was not sealed properly. Cookie Notice I just completed a four month long project laying 800 sf of irregular Pennsylvania Blue flagstone (variable thickness stone of 1.5 to 2.25 inches think); at our house in Seattle, WA. When Im done, the joint material will be about a quarter inch from the tops of the stones. Would appreciate your thoughts! Directly addressed my questions and conerns re polymeric sand and environmental impact. This will allow you to enjoy your stabilized pea gravel for years to come. Now in the above drawing, on the left is 3/4 to 1 clean gravel. Not polymeric, it doesnt harden. I have pea gravel in the entire enclosure. the process of building a dry stone sphere, for me, is always a cosmic and transformitive experience. Hi Devin Thanks for all your comments. Will smaller flagstones be stable, or do you need to use larger slabs?

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